Dillion Eastoe speaks to Frank Turner ahead of the first night of his arena tour at Cardiff’s Motorpoint Arena.

Tonight is the first show of the tour, how are you going to translate the live show from the smaller venues youÔÇÖre used to, to playing in an arena setting?

Frank: ItÔÇÖs a question I spend a lot of time thinking about actually. The reason weÔÇÖre doing these venues is because I want everybody to be able to buy a ticket if they want to. You know, itÔÇÖs like we could do a smaller place, sell it out, and then lots of people are excluded, loads of people start touting tickets, which I hate. So, yeah, bigger place but to be blunt itÔÇÖs easier to put on a good show in a smaller venue, because youÔÇÖre right there, or to put on an intimate show. ItÔÇÖs not impossible to do in a bigger place, weÔÇÖve had a bit of practice here and there, doing the Wembley show and weÔÇÖve done support at venues like this a number of times. But it takes a bit of thought and effort, weÔÇÖve been- I mean I should not take any credit for most of this, my band and crew have been incredible and weÔÇÖve put a show together and hopefully itÔÇÖs going to retain a sense of intimacy, personality, connection and all the rest of it. I mean, havenÔÇÖt done the show yet so weÔÇÖll have to see how it goes tonight! But yeah weÔÇÖve been in preproduction rehearsals for a few days, and IÔÇÖm excited about it, I think itÔÇÖs going to be good.

No pyro then?

Frank: No pyro no, to be honest with you mainly because itÔÇÖs too expensive. Umm I mean at the end of the day, I donÔÇÖt want to harp on about this too much but IÔÇÖm proud of the ticket price on this tour. ItÔÇÖs roughly a third of what other gigs at this sort of venue would cost, I research this kind of shit. And for me, you know, thatÔÇÖs the thing, I donÔÇÖt want to suddenly become an artist who charges ┬ú60 quid to go and see a show, because itÔÇÖs rubbish. But, the flipside of that is that it means we canÔÇÖt generally afford pyro and wireless and stuff like that because thereÔÇÖs less money in the pot. But still-

You donÔÇÖt really need it?

Frank:┬á Yeah, thatÔÇÖs the thing, I totally agree. You know, you go and see- I remember going to see-┬á I should preface this by saying I am a Coldplay fan and I donÔÇÖt care who knows it. But you see a Coldplay show and thereÔÇÖs lots of kind of bells and whistles and tricks and sort of lights and costume changes and all of that. And thatÔÇÖs fair enough, but then you go and see Springsteen and the E Street Band and thereÔÇÖs nothing, itÔÇÖs just a bunch of people on stage playing music for a few hours and you know, I find that quite inspirational, do you know what I mean? You need to muck about, you just play good songs.

YouÔÇÖve played over 1000 shows since going solo. How do you balance life on tour with life off the road?

Umm, I mean, well, thatÔÇÖs a question thatÔÇÖs become a bit more relevant to me lately. For a very long time there wasnÔÇÖt really a question of balance, all I did was- I was on tour, I didnÔÇÖt have my own gaff and I just kind of was on the road and if I wasnÔÇÖt on the road I would be in the studio or kind of just travelling around visiting friends kind of thing and umm and on that level it wasnÔÇÖt even something I really had to adjust to or whatever it was just kind of my normal mode of existence. Umm, in recent years I have got my own place again now, which is a bit weird. We just had 5 weeks off the road and I woke up in the same place every day for 5 weeks, which really started freaking me out after a while. But umm, but I mean you know, itÔÇÖs funny, I think that I donÔÇÖt wanna- IÔÇÖve got no plans on stopping touring, but there was definitely a moment in my life where there was an element of bravado involved in my tour schedule, ÔÇ£I can tour harder than everybody, I can stay on tour forever!ÔÇØ. And now, itÔÇÖs not like IÔÇÖm old particularly, but thereÔÇÖs a difference between being 32 and 22, and now IÔÇÖm a bit just kind of like, IÔÇÖm really sure who is impressed by it other than me, do you know what I mean? And itÔÇÖs just like, umm, IÔÇÖm quite comfortable with the idea now that weÔÇÖre gonna do- this tours like 9 days, then IÔÇÖm gonna go home for 3 days, then weÔÇÖre gonna on tour for 3 weeks, then IÔÇÖm gonna go home for 3 days, then weÔÇÖre go off and- you know, it doesnÔÇÖt have to be this utterly masochistic brutal kind of death march, do you know what I mean?┬á Umm so yeah, maybe thatÔÇÖs me getting long in the tooth there.

If you look at the 90s, the 80s, the 70s, youÔÇÖve got Springsteen, youÔÇÖve got Nirvana, who are like cultural icons. Who could you see from the 21^st Century filling that role? Or do you think the time for that has been and gone?

Frank: Umm I think that, I would argue that in some ways the time for that is gone, in a good way. The thing about it- ÔÇÿcause itÔÇÖs about democratization. The music industry pre-internet was a very monolithic place. Like if you look at Nirvana, I love Nirvana donÔÇÖt get me wrong, but like, the way that Nirvana broke in the UK, you get on the bill at a couple of festivals, you get one radio station behind you and one magazine and youÔÇÖre the biggest band in the country. And thatÔÇÖs it, youÔÇÖve done it, and if you donÔÇÖt get those then youÔÇÖre not, and thatÔÇÖs just it, you know? And itÔÇÖs very, kind of pretty close shot, do you know what I mean? And umm, what I like about the internet is that I think the days in which- ÔÇÿcause that was it, Nirvana arrived and everyone was into Nirvana because they were everywhere, and I just donÔÇÖt think that can really happen anymore, because people go and find the music they like and┬á itÔÇÖs very kind of- yeah itÔÇÖs decentralized and itÔÇÖs democratised, and I think thatÔÇÖs a good thing actually, because thereÔÇÖs something slightly kind of authoritarian about this idea that just the music industry decides ÔÇ£This band is the band everybodyÔÇÖs into now!ÔÇØ, and I think thereÔÇÖs something a bit crap about that. Umm so I doubt they will be quite on the same level, dÔÇÖyou know what I mean?

When you first picked up a guitar, what was the first song you learnt to play? Or was there a particular album that moved you to pick up a guitar?

Frank: [laughs] Ahh well, yeah- thatÔÇÖs two separate questions really. The first band I fell in love with, and who remain one of my favourite bands is Iron Maiden, and they were the band that got me into music, and I love them. IÔÇÖve actually just got a massive Iron Maiden tattoo done on my leg! [Frank eagerly pulls up his trouser leg to show me. HeÔÇÖs right, it is massive.]┬á You know, love ÔÇÿem! But from them I sort of got into you know Metallica, and then Pantera and then….. I shudder to say this out loud but Guns ÔÇÿNÔÇÖ Roses, a band who I now despise. But umm, at the time the first song I ever played on guitar was ÔÇÿKnocking On Heavens DoorÔÇÖ, which is obviously a Bob Dylan song, but I thought it was by Guns ÔÇÿNÔÇÖ Roses. In my defence I was 11 years old, so, you know…

But it was Bob Dylan so itÔÇÖs fine

Frank: ThatÔÇÖs the thing, I should have just lied at this point and just tell people ÔÇ£yeah, I learnt a Bob Dylan songÔÇØ. But umm, the truth is I thought it was GunsÔÇÖNÔÇÖRoses.

Listening to your album ÔÇÿEngland Keep My BonesÔÇÖ, from the title through to the lyrics itÔÇÖs really unashamed in how fond you are of England. Was this a response to a lot of bands that rave about ÔÇÿthe American DreamÔÇÖ , or did the themes of the record come organically?

Frank: Umm,┬á a little bit of both. I mean, IÔÇÖve certainly- you know a song I found very inspirational, the first punk band I fell in love with was the Clash and I still adore the Clash and my favourite- the first song of theirs that really grabbed me was ÔÇ£IÔÇÖm so bored of the USAÔÇØ, and itÔÇÖs like- I love America, I adore America, I love the culture, I love the bands, I love the music, I love touring there. The bottom line is, IÔÇÖm not American, and…my cultural references are not generally American, and I donÔÇÖt want to make music that sounds like itÔÇÖs American, and I feel like some bands do, and I think thereÔÇÖs something slightly dishonest about that. ItÔÇÖs important to state that IÔÇÖm not ÔÇô a lot of people listen to that record and consider me to be like a patriot or even like a nationalist in some way. So – no IÔÇÖm definitely not. I mean thereÔÇÖs many things about being English that…. fuck me off as there are that I like, and at the end of the day itÔÇÖs all just a geographic and genetic accident where you happen to be born anyway and thereÔÇÖs nothing special about it. Umm, but, you know, I am- I mean England, Englishness is the culture that I grew up in, and IÔÇÖm sort of interested in how that interacts with my personality I guess. And so somewhere in the middle of all that…. I guess the other thing as well is that I kept kind of sort of mentioning it in songs and I thought itÔÇÖd be a good idea to get it all out of my system in one go. And thatÔÇÖs- itÔÇÖs funny like with ÔÇÿTape Deck HeartÔÇÖ [FrankÔÇÖs most recent album] lots of people were kind of ÔÇ£ahh, urgh, thereÔÇÖs no songs about England on it?ÔÇØ, and I go-

I was just about to ask, how does that contrast to themes on ÔÇÿTape Deck HeartÔÇÖ?

Frank: ItÔÇÖs a different record and thatÔÇÖs the point. Do you know what I mean? And like people go [Frank adopts a stuttering snivelling voice] ÔÇ£ThereÔÇÖs no- thereÔÇÖs nothing about England on it!ÔÇØ And I go ÔÇ£Yeah I know-ÔÇ£

Just listen to the other one!

Frank: Yeah, totally, it amazes me sometimes how conservative music fans can be. ÔÇÿCause every single time IÔÇÖve released a new album, thereÔÇÖs always a couple of people somewhere who say something along the line of essentially ÔÇ£ITÔÇÖS NOT THE SAME AS IT WAS BEFORE!! Why isnÔÇÖt it the same as it was before?!ÔÇØ. To which I go ÔÇ£IÔÇÖm trying to make it different! ThatÔÇÖs what artÔÇÖs about.ÔÇØ …you dickhead, umm. You know so, I mean in many ways it was quite liberating to write ÔÇÿTape Deck HeartÔÇÖ ÔÇÿcause I felt like I didnÔÇÖt have to say anything about England anymore and that was quite nice. And the next record I write wonÔÇÖt be about anything to do with tape decks or broken hearts. And weÔÇÖll move on and IÔÇÖm sure right now, out there in the world there is somebody who is kind of warming up their fingers to send an email going [Frank puts on a voice more reminiscent of a Noel Fielding character this time] ÔÇ£ItÔÇÖs not about broken hearts.ÔÇØ And uh, itÔÇÖll just be like, God damn it… you canÔÇÖt win [laughs].

In the past few months youÔÇÖve had quite a lot of exposure on TV, firstly winning Celebrity Mastermind, then last week playing on Newsnight [in tribute to the late, great Pete Seeger]. How satisfying is it to be able to appear on shows that are slightly more sophisticated rather than normal talent show performances you see from a lot of mainstream acts?

Frank: Uh, itÔÇÖs nice. I mean- umm…. Mastermind was a really cool thing for me, ÔÇÿcause when I was a kid I was a total geek. And me and my geeky friends used to talk about Mastermind. And all of them have gone off and become like… umm, I mean IÔÇÖve got a friend who works at NASA, and you know, sort of university lecturers and shit like this… and IÔÇÖm the one who went off and got tattoos and got drunk and joined a band. And IÔÇÖm the one who won Mastermind damn it! You know, and that made me feel pretty good. Umm, and the Newsnight thing was a bit weird, it was slightly random. But stuff like thatÔÇÖs great because itÔÇÖs- itÔÇÖs within my mumÔÇÖs field of reference, so she kind of thinks that IÔÇÖve actually got a job which is- ÔÇÿCause my mum doesnÔÇÖt know what like Hammersmith is, you know or Wembley, she doesnÔÇÖt give a shit. And then she sees me on Newsnight and goes ÔÇ£Oh right, yeah ok, youÔÇÖre doing alright. ThatÔÇÖs my boy that is.ÔÇØ ┬áThat kind of thing. So yeah it is cool. I donÔÇÖt know itÔÇÖs not- at the same time, and this is true of an awful lot of things that I do in my career right now, the only thing I really care about is music, right? And trying to write good songs, make good records and play good shows. Something like Celebrity Mastermind, yeah, of course IÔÇÖm going to do it, because itÔÇÖs fun, but itÔÇÖs all done with a pinch of salt, and if it didnÔÇÖt happen I wouldnÔÇÖt give two shits. But umm, itÔÇÖs funny ÔÇÿcause occasionally people go ÔÇ£ah no, youÔÇÖre a sell-out appearing on MastermindÔÇØ,┬á and itÔÇÖs just like, for fucks sake. If I hadnÔÇÖt been doing it that day I would have been probably just like watching TV, in my house…

Watching the same show…

Frank: Yeah, right, exactly. And itÔÇÖs kind of like whatÔÇÖs to lose? ItÔÇÖs just fun you know, just god damn it get over yourself. ┬á[laughs] Sorry, IÔÇÖm sounding too defensive now.

Carrying on from that, if you were asked to go on X-factor and play a song, would you do that?

Frank: No, I donÔÇÖt think I would. ÔÇÿCause thatÔÇÖs a slightly different thing, ÔÇÿcause thatÔÇÖs to do with music. Mastermind is a non-musical thing and whatever, as indeed is Newsnight. X-factor… IÔÇÖm not one of these people who spends their every waking hour getting angry about Simon CowellÔÇÖs existence, because I think itÔÇÖs a waste of energy ÔÇÿcause itÔÇÖs not going to affect Simon Cowell in any way. And in many ways what IÔÇÖd like to do is draw a firm line between his world and my world, because whatÔÇÖs frustrating is people both use the same terminology: ÔÇÿmusicÔÇÖ, ÔÇÿrecordsÔÇÖ, ÔÇÿartistsÔÇÖ, that kind of thing, to describe both, and I view them as being pretty fundamentally different. And as long as you can make sure that line exists good luck to you, do you know what I mean? One Direction? Carry on, I donÔÇÖt care, you know, have fun. But for that reason, thatÔÇÖs I wouldnÔÇÖt want to kind of cross that line. You know as long as that divide exists then IÔÇÖm perfectly happy for everybody to live and let live.

Last year when you were on tour in America you received your first ever religious picket (other recipients of this behaviour include Foo Fighters and Bon Jovi, amongst many others). Where does that rank in the most surreal moments of your career?

Frank: Ah, that was such a great day. Umm, I mean you know, it was two guys and apparently they do it for quite a lot of the bands who play there. But it was a special moment, you know? When youÔÇÖre a kid you sort of watch- I mean, you know Iron Maiden got picketed in the states, and Marilyn Manson, stuff like that…

ItÔÇÖs a sort of validation?

Frank: Yeah! ItÔÇÖs a rite of passage! And it was so lovely, ÔÇÿcause we were all in the venue, just hanging out and Nigel who plays the drums kind of came in and went ÔÇ£Umm, there is a religious picketÔÇØ and first time I was like ÔÇ£Oh bollocks is thereÔÇØ, then it was like no there really is! And so we went running outside and I got my photo taken with the guy which was lovely, he had no idea who I was which I thought was even funnier. But it was a- yeah a fucking hilarious thing.

Has anything weirder than that happened to you?

Frank: Yeah [laughs], some very strange things. I mean being on tour is a strange mode of existence full stop, which is one of the reasons that I like it is that lots of odd things happen all the time, sometimes good sometimes bad, you know what I mean? Its funny, occasionally people go Whats the funniest thing thats ever happened to you on tour? and I go- I mean where do you wanna start, do you know what I mean? Umm, but yeah, people are a strange bunch, human beings, Ive had some very strange requests made of me, and people have given me odd things and done odd things but yeah, lets not talk too much about these.

When you made the switch from your heavier early work with Million Dead to your more acoustic songs, did you get much support from the friends youÔÇÖd made in the hardcore scene, or was it starting again in a sense?

Frank: Umm, yes and no. I kind of donÔÇÖt want to overplay it too much in either direction, and nostalgia is a funny thing because it- I try quite hard not to be rose-tinted looking back at things. In some ways I wanna go ÔÇ£No one cared!ÔÇØ you know? And certainly there was a moment when the last Million Dead show in London had 800 people at it and the first solo show I did in London had 3 people at it, and that was a bit of a kick in the teeth. But I got an awful lot of gigs in the early days from promoters who knew who I was ÔÇÿcause IÔÇÖd been in Million Dead and I got the support on that level. And also Xtra Mile Recordings have been involved with Million Dead and they were supportive so, and I donÔÇÖt want to kind of do that down. But there definitely was a lot of people that said to me ÔÇ£youÔÇÖre mental.ÔÇØ And I donÔÇÖt want to kind of claim to be a trailblazer particularly but there was definitely- itÔÇÖs a bit more of a thing now to go from playing heavy music to playing acoustic stuff, a lot more people have done it. And it was, a lot more people thought IÔÇÖd kind of had some kind of psychotic episode at the time, do you know what I mean? But itÔÇÖs weird ÔÇÿcause at the time I definitely thought I knew what I was doing, and everyone else thought I was mental. And now everybody looks back at it and thinks I must have known what I was doing and I think I was mental. Because it just kind ofÔǪ.- with hindsight it seems quite a strange series of decisions that I made, but you know, itÔÇÖs kind of worked out soÔǪ

Yeah, youre doing alright

Frank: [laughs] Yeah, exactly, IÔÇÖm not complaining about it.

So with your side project Mongol Horde, you went back to a heavier style of music, was it easy to slide back into that?

Frank: Yeah, from a sort of musical point of view because I still listen to quite a lot of heavy music. Umm, I was quite pleased in the very first rehearsal we ever had that IÔÇÖve still got my yell, know what I mean? It was like, I hadnÔÇÖt done it for years and it was like ÔÇ£Can I still do this?ÔÇØ┬á and I kind of went [Frank does a low volume imitation of his scream] and ÔÇ£oh yeah, I canÔÇØ, so thatÔÇÖs nice. Umm, yeah I mean Mongol HordeÔÇÖs loads of fun, weÔÇÖve almost finished an album, itÔÇÖs gonna come out soon and weÔÇÖre gonna tour this summer hopefully, IÔÇÖm not gonna swear to that just yet because it depends on a bunch of other stuff. But yeah, I love Mongol Horde, itÔÇÖs a lot of fun. One of the things I like about it, and- this is now getting slightly musicologist about heavy music but I- for me, IÔÇÖve listened to a lot of heavy music in my time you know, metal, hardcore, death metal, black metal, grindcore, all that kind of thing. The dividing line for me has always been about a sense of humour. The reason I was never that into like Emperor, and Bathory and stuff like that is because it takes itself too seriously, whereas Pantera, who are for me one of the fucking greatest bands of all time could always definitely laugh at themselves. Obviously thereÔÇÖs moments of extreme intensity in there, but you know there was a kind of sense of humour about it. And Mongol Horde, IÔÇÖm not trying to say weÔÇÖre a comedy band and weÔÇÖre not a serious band but thereÔÇÖs definitely a lot of kind of tongue in cheek stuff there, and I love it. Incidentally I think thatÔÇÖs one of the things that for me set Million Dead apart from quite a lot of our contemporaries is again there was quite a lot of humour in it, and itÔÇÖs funny to me how a lot of people donÔÇÖt get that. So thereÔÇÖs a line on a Million Dead song- thereÔÇÖs a song that starts with ÔÇ£The leg boneÔÇÖs connected to the hip boneÔÇØ and you know, it goes on to be a song about export processing zones as it goes. But I remember one review for the album that was just so fucking angry about that and it was just like [Frank feigns the reviewers angry mumblings] wow! You know? It was just kind of tongue in cheek, get over it, itÔÇÖs like ÔÇ£these are the worst lyrics IÔÇÖve read in my life!ÔÇØ to which I think, man, wait ÔÇÿtil you hear the Mongol Horde record, thereÔÇÖs some fucking crazy shit on there.. [At this point FrankÔÇÖs press manager opens the door and signals to Frank to wind it up. WeÔÇÖve been talking for far longer than the allocated ten minutes.]

Okay, one more question.

YouÔÇÖre an artist whoÔÇÖs toured and recorded with a really fierce work ethic to get to where you are playing arenas. How important would you say it is for the public to support up and coming musicians by buying records, going to show to keep music alive?

Frank: Umm, wellÔǪ. It depends what the general public are into, I mean you know, one thing IÔÇÖm always quite careful to think about is thatÔǪ┬á IÔÇÖm not entitled to anything in life, IÔÇÖm not- no one has any obligation to like my music or┬á buy my records, come to my shows, I have to make music thatÔÇÖs worth listening to, you know? And on the flipside you know, if you like music, particularly underground music then you have to contribute to it you know, in some ways. And thatÔÇÖs been- the business model of the music industry has been derailedÔǪ or upended by the internet. I donÔÇÖt really care about business models very much soÔǪ so what? Do you know what I mean, as long as musicÔÇÖs still getting made, but the important point, and this to me is the only thing that really matters in the whole ÔÇÿillegal downloading, internet blah blah blahÔÇÖ, is that if you want music to exist as a functioning economy then you have to contribute to it. And the thing that bothers me is that I have young cousins who are like 13 who donÔÇÖt understand why they should ever financially contribute to the music that they like. And itÔÇÖs like, THATÔÇÖS the problem, do you know what I mean? ÔÇÿCause at the end of the day, being in a band costs money, and IÔÇÖm not talking about making millions of pounds, ÔÇÿcause I donÔÇÖt make millions of pounds, so itÔÇÖs hilarious, everybody thinks I must be a millionaire and itÔÇÖs just kind of like ÔÇ£Errm, no actually?ÔÇØ But umm, you know itÔÇÖsÔǪ-you have to contribute if you want music to exist, and I think thatÔÇÖs the important message to get across. And how- and itÔÇÖs our responsibility at the other end as people making the music to present just and fair and equitable ways for people to contribute, which means making records that are worth buying, putting on shows that are worth going to, you know, making merch thatÔÇÖs affordable but also cool, whatever. However it is that you do it, you know, enabling people to engage with it economically. But yeah, there has to be some kind of give and take. Put it this way, ALL my friends in bands try and give me free copies of their albums when they make them, and I always make a point of buying them when they come out.

There we go [Frank laughs and claps his hands] What a place to end! Thanks!

Thank you very much!